NEW MEXICO GAMING CONTROL BOARD
One-Day Regular Board Meeting
August 8, 2006
MINUTES
The Board of Directors of the New Mexico Gaming Control Board (Board) conducted a one-day Regular Board meeting at Gaming Control Board Headquarters, 4900 Alameda Blvd. NE. Chair Carla Lopez called the meeting to order at approximately 9:05 a.m., on Tuesday August 8, 2006. Due notice was published in accordance with the Gaming Control Act and the New Mexico Gaming Control Board Open Meetings Resolution and Chair Carla Lopez declared a quorum. Present were: Commissioner David Norvell, Commissioner Don Dutton, Chair Carla Lopez and Commissioner Carolyn Monroe. Deputy Executive Director Greg Saunders and General Counsel Frank Baca were also in attendance.
· Approval of Agenda
Chair Carla Lopez presented the agenda for approval. A motion was made to approve the agenda as presented: C. Monroe. Second: D. Norvell. Vote: 4-0.
1 Closed Executive Session. Chair Carla Lopez entertained a motion to go into closed executive session until 1:30 p.m., for the purpose of discussing licensing matters, issues of finding of suitability on key and affiliated persons, pending administrative and enforcement matters, pending and threatened litigation, limited personnel matters as enumerated in detail on the agenda, and tribal matters. (Closed pursuant to section 10-15-1(H), NMSA 1978): D. Norvell. Second: D. Dutton. Vote: 4-0. A roll call vote was taken and all voted to go into closed executive session: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe.
2 On Tuesday August 8, 2006 at approximately 1:36 p.m., a motion was made to go back into open session: D. Dutton. Second: C. Monroe. Vote: 4-0. A roll call vote was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe. Chair Carla Lopez certified the only items discussed in closed executive session were licensing matters, issues of findings of suitability on key and affiliated persons, pending administrative and enforcement matters, pending and threatened litigation, tribal matters, and limited personnel matters as enumerated in detail on the agenda.
3 Approval of Minutes. Chair Carla Lopez presented the minutes for the One Day Regular Board Meeting, July 25, 2006. Commissioner Norvell moved to approve the minutes. Second: D. Dutton. Vote: 4-0.
4 Board Chair Announcements. Chair Carla Lopez announced that the scheduled Board Meetings are the second Tuesday of each month. If a two day meeting is required, the Board will reconvene the next following morning.
· The next regular Board meetings are Tuesday September 19, 2006 and October 10, 2006.
· Introduction of new employees:
Tribal Employees: Andrea Salas, and Mariscela Ea.
Commissioner David Norvell – Filling the spot that Tony Knott used to fill as the Law Enforcement Agent, he will be a full time Commissioner
Commissioner Dutton was reappointed into his position
5 Licensing
· Renewals of Gaming Licenses for 2006:
Mr. Saunders noted that this information was presented to the Board in closed executive session. Mr. Saunders read into the record the following Renewals of Gaming Licenses for 2006:
a. American Legion Post 13 (Albuquerque)
b. American Legion Post 49 (Albuquerque)
c. American Legion Post 69 (Albuquerque)
d. Aries Gaming (Albuquerque)
e. BPO Elks 969 (Roswell)
f. Fraternal Order of Eagles 3187 (Roswell)
g. Fraternal Order of Eagles 3526 (Logan)
h. Loyal Order of Moose 2016 (Alamogordo)
i. Mikohn Gaming (Las Vegas, NV)
j. Veterans of Foreign Wars 1547 (Las Vegas, NM)
There were no questions from the Board. Commissioner Monroe moved to grant the renewals of Gaming Licenses for 2006 as read. Second: D. Norvell. Vote: 4-0. A roll call was taken and D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe voted in favor of the motion.
· Issuance of Findings of Suitability on Key and Affiliated Persons. Mr. Saunders noted that during the closed executive session, the staff presented the results of the background investigations on the findings of suitability for key and affiliated persons. Mr. Saunders read aloud the following list of new key person applications:
New Applications
a. David Hessler - Gaming Accountant – American Legion Post 77
b. Peggy Almanza – Gaming Manager – BPO Elks 2053
c. Steve Cooke – Lead Slot Supervisor – Sun Ray Park & Casino
d. Vernard Scott – Relief Slot Supervisor – Sun Ray Park & Casino
There were no comments from the Board. Commissioner Dutton moved to accept the Issuance of Findings of Suitability on Key and Affiliated Persons for new applications. Second: D. Norvell. Vote: 4-0. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe.
6 Pending Administrative and Enforcement Actions
· Approval of Settlement Agreement for Cindy Hays; Cause No. 06-004-EA.
There were no comments from the Board. Commissioner Norvell moved to accept the settlement agreement. D. Dutton. Vote: 4-0. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe.
· Approval of Settlement Agreement for Wiley Austin; Cause No. 06-005-EA. There were no questions from the Board. Commissioner Norvell moved to accept the settlement agreement. Second: C. Monroe. Vote: 4-0. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe.
· Approval of Settlement Agreement for Robert Hays; Cause No. 06-006-EA.
There were no questions from the Board. Commissioner Norvell moved to accept the settlement agreement. Second: D. Dutton. Vote: 4-0. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe.
· Approval of Settlement Agreement for Downs at Albuquerque; Cause No. 06-004-EA. There were no questions from the Board. Commissioner Norvell moved to accept the settlement agreement. Second: C. Monroe. Vote: 4-0. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe.
· Hearing Officer’s Recommendation of Default Judgment for Gaming Control Board vs. Derek Paley; Cause No. 06-001-EA. Mr. Paley was not present. There were no questions from the Board. Commissioner Monroe moved to accept the hearing officer’s recommendation. Second: D. Dutton. Vote: 4-0. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe.
· Hearing Officer’s Recommendation for Gaming Control Board vs. Rosa Rodriquez; Cause No. 06-003-EA. Ms. Rodriquez was present and requested a closed session. Chair Carla Lopez entertained a motion to go into closed executive session for the purpose of discussing pending and enforcement matters. C. Monroe. Second: D. Dutton. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe. Chair Carla Lopez entertained a motion to go back into open session. D. Norvell. Second: D. Dutton. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe. Chair Carla Lopez certified the only matters discussed in closed executive session were pending, administrative, enforcement actions specifically regarding Rosa Rodriquez. Commissioner Dutton moved to grant the renewal of the license to Rosa Rodriquez, with the condition that she pay to the State of Texas all monies owed to it and that she do so on a monthly basis and send receipt to Enforcement and Licensing at the Gaming Control Board. Payments to be made each month and that it be paid no later than 12 months from the date of the order. Second: C. Monroe. Vote: 3-0. A roll call was taken and voting in favor of the motion were: D. Norvell, D. Dutton and C. Monroe. C. Lopez, abstained.
Commissioner Dutton asked Ms. Rodriquez to repeat back her understanding of what had just been discussed. Ms. Rodriquez responded that she had to pay every month and that it be paid no later than 12 months from today. Commissioner Norvell noted that she would have to ask the State of Texas to give her a receipt and that she send that to the Board.
· Enforcement Action – American Legion Post #26. Mr. Saunders noted that the information regarding this matter was presented to the Board in closed executive session. Charles Hoye was present for American Legion Post #26 and requested to meet with the Board in closed session. Chair Carla Lopez entertained a motion to go into closed executive session for the purpose of discussing enforcement actions regarding American Legion Post #26. D. Dutton. Second: D. Norvell. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe. Chair Carla Lopez entertained a motion to go back into open session. D. Dutton. Second: D. Norvell. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe. Chair Carla Lopez certified the only matters discussed in closed executive session were enforcement actions specifically regarding American Legion Post #26.
· Update on Central Monitoring System.
Greg Saunders made presentation to the Board regarding the tentative conversion schedule provided by SGI for final software upgrade and testing for F3 migraton at the racetracks. UAT (User Acceptance Testing) of final AEGIS release in mid September. A week will be spent at each facility beginning with Sunray Park on September 12. On October 4, move to Post 49 in Albuquerque to install and test Dial-up and the Extrema CX, our intention is to get as many nonprofits completed and be off the old system completely prior to the legislative session.
There were no questions for Mr. Saunders from the Board. There were no questions from the racetracks.
7 Policy and Rulemaking Matters.
Mr. Saunders requested a change of order for the Policy and Rulemaking Matters to begin with Appointment of Hearing Officer for Rules 15.1. NMAC.
· Appointment of Hearing Officer for Rules 15.1 NMAC
Frank Baca, General Counsel asked the Board to appoint Mr. Alaniz as Hearing Officer for the rule making hearing to be held in late October. Commissioner Dutton made a motion to appoint Henry Alaniz as hearing officer for Rulemaking Hearing. Second: D. Norvell. A roll call was taken and all voted in favor of the motion: D. Norvell, D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe.
· Informal Discussion of Proposed Rule Changes.
Chair Carla Lopez asked if the public had comments on any particular area then the Board could address those and open it up for discussion rather than going through each of the rules.
Mr. Rimbo – commented that he had submitted comments in writing. Commissioner Dutton asked Mr. Rimbo to discuss the ticket printer, the in-out and what to do in case of misprinting.
Mr. Rimbo – we included that as a suggestion because we think its important in any system and we have found that the system needs to be able to sometimes and your just not going to get a ticket, the system needs to be able to record. We think that needs to be a part of anything that you adopt for the future. If there is some malfunction there is a backup of what it is both on the computer that can be printed out on a hard copy so there’s a record of what that transaction was.
Frank Baca – The comments that we received in writing, the two areas that seemed to be the most concern would be 10.7 and 10.20 the additional payout rule and promotion rule. We have also got additional input from the audit staff, we will need to focus on this and probably get a revised draft out on that to everybody within the next couple of weeks.
Commissioner Dutton: Mr. Rimbo on Page 3 - Subsection J that requires the rules for additional payout to be with or adjacent to the advertising promotion on the floor and you start off with “this is really not feasible”, is it not feasible because of the configuration.
Mr. Rimbo: I think it’s not feasible because as you know you put posters all over, advertising or promotion, just like when you walk into McDonald’s. You walk in there and there’s a poster that says we’re playing monopoly. They don’t post all the rules with every poster. The way I understand the rule to read you would need to have it adjacent or on every poster wall, I don’t think that feasible to have it posted somewhere within the facility or certainly make it available to people absolutely, that needs to be done, it should be done and we do that and that’s what I meant about it not being realistic is to think that everywhere you have that you could have it adjacent to it. It will be available at information booths and we will have it posted. I might add one thing real quickly the other one that I think is significant was the customer disputes, it needs a lot of attention.
Commissioner Dutton: We’re working on that.
· Policy Statement on Bingo and Raffle
Public Discussion:
Martha Archuleta – Sacred Heart Church, Espanola
We have been running the church bingo in Espanola for 24 years. We have volunteers none of us get paid and we have question for some stuff. Bingo, I’m the Bingo Manager and I have an Assistant, I make the report and the assistant checks it and he signs it also. You say the bingo manager cannot make the report, I’m the only one that knows how to make the report and I don’t get paid for it. We use this money that we make for the church, we use 75% goes for the church cemetery, 25% we donate to other nonprofit organizations. We have hard cards, we have ten and those we pay $25.00 for each game and if there’s more than one winner we split. Another thing that we would like is that the bingo you say permits, I’ve been there for 24 years and I think my assistant has been there about 20 and then it’s the same people and so its you say that the permits will be for one year, on the bingo manager and the assistant and also the callers? We have like three callers, they’re all church members and the inventory we buy our supplies from Southwest people here in Albuquerque and then we buy in bulk we have a room that’s just bingo supplies, it’s locked and we’re the only ones in there and the utilities $40 a week we run on bingo a week, the hard cards, having somebody do the bingo report and that we have to get a permit every year.
Chair Carla Lopez: Ms. Archuleta with regards to the $40 on utilities and Marcia correct me if I’m wrong but that has been the ongoing standing regulation that was set by RLD, the thing that we have allowed is for allowable, lawful expenses you can take that deduction but only the $40 can be deducted in calculating your taxes and that has always been the amount that has been set per occasion.
Marcia: How many occasions do you have in a quarter?
Ms. Archuleta: about 13 bingos.
Marcia: Then it would be 13 x your $40. You can always call us.
Mark: Annual renewal process with an annual background, every application, there should be a background conducted.
Ms. Archuleta: For those three people?
Mark: If they need a license they need a permit, they need a background.
Chair Carla Lopez: You can be a gaming manager and you can also call but not within the same occasion. If you have an assistant gaming manager and you don’t have a caller you can at that time one of you choose to be the caller during that game and the other one reviews the paperwork.
Ms. Archuleta: It would change our whole system, we have 10 games.
Dolores Vigil – Sacred Heart Church, Espanola
My concern is we did look into getting more paper ballot, more paper games and it would entail massive paperwork to get 10 more sheets per night for everybody to play in color wise it became a problem for us because they don’t have 20 different colors of bingo sheets so our hard cards are important because it makes it so much easier for us otherwise we’re dealing with massive paper and confusion so we would like considerations as far as the hard cards are concerned for the nonprofit organizations I know that a lot of your rules and regulations came because of gaming, the Indian gaming we’re entirely different because we don’t make the kind of money and we don’t have the people and we don’t pay them so it makes a lot of difference and our hard cards would really help us if you would allow us to use the hard cards.
Marcia: How many occasions do you have in a year? Just to keep it in perspective for your type gaming play vs. others.
Ms. Vigil: We have a weekly bingo game. Once a week. We’re closed 3 weeks for Christmas and that’s it. We have 49 a year.
Michelle: What kind of controls are on the hard cards?
Ms. Vigil: We pick them all up and we don’t count them, they’re pretty honest, we have a pretty good crew that comes in to play bingo and they’re pretty trusting.
Ginny Schaller: Italian American Association in Rio Rancho
We’re having a little bit of a problem with the release information that you’re asking for, we are all volunteers but they’re asking for information contained within financial and personal records, the personal records I guess you could get that through public information but our financial records are not something that
Commissioner Dutton: You understand that it would be kept confidential here.
Ms. Schaller: But you’re saying that an agent or employees need to go into this information, that to me opens it up to just about everybody in the group.
Chair Carla Lopez: That’s not the case an agent is or employee and everyone here is under signs of confidentiality agreement.
Ms. Schaller: I don’t understand why we need to have our financial
Chair Carla Lopez: I don’t think we’re per say requesting financial information as much as having the ability to do financial checks. We’re not requesting that you submit tax returns or other financial documentation.
Ms. Schaller: Are you suggesting that you can go and check our savings account, our checking account?
Chair Carla Lopez: No just doing credit checks.
Mark: As far as the financial records, right now we think that that would allow us just do a simple credit check.
Ms. Schaller: But if we sign this with that information here, it could mean that you could check our financial information.
Commissioner Dutton: We may need to wordsmith it and thank you for bringing that up let’s just take a look at it an see because if all we’re going to do is go to the credit bureau then maybe we could limit this and then in the exceptional cases we can ask for something more.
Frank Baca: We did modify that form to address that particular concern.
Ms. Schaller: It was taken out of paragraph 3 but it’s in paragraph 10 on the new one. Tell me what we are supposed to use as bookkeeper or an accountant is that somebody official? We don’t have a bookkeeper or an accountant. We have a person who is a volunteer, we have a gaming manager, an assistant gaming manager and we have six callers, because one caller will call part of the session and then we’ll have another caller do the last part of the session. One person can’t sit there and do the whole session, so we usually have 2 or 3 callers a night but a bookkeeper is a title that we have one person that keeps that title, but she doesn’t do any bookkeeping.
Marcia: Does she prepare the report?
Ms. Schaller: No, it says in here she’s not supposed to prepare the report. I do the report.
Marcia: You are the bingo manager as well? Then you will have to find someone to do the report because there’s a separation of duties, if you’re the manager on the floor then someone else has to prepare the report and for the preparation of your monthly taxes. You will need to have somebody doing the report. The person who is doing the bookkeeping cannot be handling cash on the floor.
Ms. Schaller: She doesn’t handle any cash at all, but nobody knows how to do these reports.
Commissioner Dutton: Again, thank you for bringing that up, we will look at that also to see if there really is a necessity to have the separation of duties if there is not it is not our purpose to make a rule just to make a rule. If there’s not a valid reason for the separation then we will do something differently.
Frank Baca: I don’t know that there’s any specific qualifications for the persons doing the reports. There’s no specific qualification, it’s just a different person. Not that they have to be a CPA, it’s just a different person so you have two different jobs being done by two different people.
Chair Carla Lopez: Frank, we need to look at it because I’m confused if you can interchange whose managing the floor, it’s almost as you have to have a separate individual that’s preparing the report. I think we need to look at that.
Dolores Otero Padilla - Southwest Bingo - I don’t have any comments.
Donald Lucero – Council 3137 – Los Alamos:
I want to vent a little bit. The letter I received said that we would meet at 1:30 at Ruidoso or here to talk about the policy, I didn’t expect to be subjected to a Board meeting. I had to drive two hours to get here and two hours back, that’s not very good. Just the basic questions and I guess to Mr. Saunders, to your department was the system broken, why did the legislature wisdom come up with these massive changes.
Greg: I’m kind of curious as to whether you’re talking about the gaming system or the bingo system?
Mr. Lucero? The bingo.
Greg: The system that we were talking about earlier has to do with the slot machine gaming only.
Mr. Lucero: Oh, no I’m not concerned about slot. We’re nickel and dime operation volunteers. I’ve been involved with bingo in Los Alamos for 25 years and I can tell you we have a good staff but every year the application process gets more cumbersome, more restrictive and move demanding. The quarterly reports get more difficult. I don’t prepare them but I know the gentleman that does and he’s a CPA and he says it’s more difficult, that’s why I asked you is the system broken?
Commissioner Dutton: It was, we’re fixing it. To be real honest with you, Regulation and Licensing they simply did not have the personnel to give this the attention that it needed to get and so the legislature in its wisdom put it on us and many of these rules are not changed from before they’re simply were not enforced and we’re simply bringing it to the public’s attention now and getting input so that we can rewrite some of these thing haven’t been looked at in 25 years and that’s the simple answer we want everyone in this room to be an honest licensee but it’s like Ronald Regan said “trust the dealer but cut the deck” and so we’re simply cutting the deck.
Mr. Lucero: You’re killing the small operator with all your bureaucratic requirements.
Chair Carla Lopez: This is merely a policy that the Board has put out there, it’s not a rule change.
Mr. Lucero: I understand that’s why I’m making the comment. Use a little bit of judgment, you’re dealing with. On a good night we’ll make $300 and some nights we don’t make anything and we’re all volunteers and to require that we have designated you’re killing us I can’t be any more distinctive than that. Just have mercy on us small operators and don’t treat us like you would the casinos at the racetracks they’re major leagues, we’re Class C. There was an annual renewal for the permit at 20 bucks a throw, what’s going to change in a year can I ask you. If I get permitted for one why do I have to submit another application for a permit.
: I think for an administrative perspective there should be mechanism to make sure that all the permits are in fact current.
Mr. Lucero: You can do that know just by the membership list and the worker list we provide. I don’t see the need for another 20 bucks from my 200 bucks a night. The State’s not making any money out of it. The system’s not broken with all due respect. Consider that I don’t mind that we get reinstated but why do we have to have a background investigation every year.
Commissioner Dutton: Well believe me if you sat on this side of the table you would know the answer to that, there are lots of things that can come up in a 12 month period of time but again Mr. Lucero we thank you for your comments. We might look at that to see if we could come up with a period that would be longer than one year maybe a two year or three year period. The whole purpose on this, we’re not arm wrestling right now, we’re asking for public input and that’s what we’re getting an we appreciate your comments as well as the other comments.
Mr. Lucero: I’m a registered professional engineer and our application and license renewal is every five years.
Commissioner Dutton: But you’re not dealing with public money. You’re not dealing with charitable monies and believe me the IRS. I went to two classes with regard to this charitable gaming that the IRS put on and you don’t want them issuing these rules and regulations. We’re taking your comments seriously.
Mr. Lucero: I do have a couple of specifics on inventory, I think we need a little bit of latitude on that, again we’re all volunteers and you want us to inventory every month, when you have volunteers they’ll go grab a stack of paper and they may not get it in the sequence so to try to make head or tails of what happens to sheet #5026.
Commissioner Dutton: Pay attention that’s all I’ve got to tell you, you’ve got to train your people to do the right thing and if the right thing requires sequencing then you train your people to do the sequencing whether they’re volunteers or not and I understand.
Mr. Lucero: If that’s the Board opinion then you’re going to run us all out of business.
Commissioner Dutton: Well if that happen, that happens but it’s not what we’re here for.
Mr. Lucero: I’m glad to hear that from you.
Commissioner Dutton: No sir you didn’t hear that I said if it happens, it happens that’s not our intent.
Mr. Lucero: I just heard that, It’s on record what you said Mr. Dutton.
Chair Carla Lopez: We’re not here to argue, we’re here to just hear public comment.
Mr. Lucero: We need some leave on the inventory requirements.
Chair Carla Lopez: and I understand and that’s not an issue.
Mr. Lucero: One item that I’ve argued with the license and the permit people is snow removal, it’s not an allowable expense. In Los Alamos we occasionally get snow and if it snows on the afternoon of the night before we have bingo we have to get it cleaned and it’s never been allowed as a legitimate expense.
Chair Carla Lopez: even under RLD?
Mr. Lucero: I don’t know who RLD is.
Chair Carla Lopez: Who regulated you before. We’ve only been regulating bingo and raffle a year, so whoever the agency was before you’re saying they did not allow it before.
Mr. Lucero: that is correct
Commissioner Monroe: and you’re asking that it be considered.
Mr. Lucero: that it be a legitimate expense.
Chair Carla Lopez: and my understanding those are statutorily set, correct.
Michelle: you can pay it out of lawful purpose money.
Mr. Lucero: Clarification on page 3, paragraph B3. All permits are valid until one year from the date of issuance.
Chair Carla Lopez: That’s the issuance of requiring them to be renewed annually.
Mr. Lucero: Instead of until you mean for one year.
Chair Carla Lopez: Calendar year
Mr. Lucero: I think that should be rewritten. Say what it means it doesn’t make sense to me. All permits are valid until one year from the date of issuance.
Mariscela: If you’re issued say today then they’re due one year from when they’re issued. From the day that you’re issued it’s good for one year.
Mr. Lucero: Can I suggest that you change until for the word for.
Chair Carla Lopez: That’s not a problem, that’s fine.
Mr. Lucero: And then on the picture badges, you’re going to issue I guess guidance on the size, the quality, those are requirements? Employees permit badge means the hard plastic cards issued by the Board. Is there going to be a charge for that? And last one is question on page 4, the top of the page, paragraph no. 4. The question I have is: The Knights of Columbus we have a Ladies Auxiliary Group that we up to now have not permitted them to help in bingo and that would be added volunteers for us to utilize if that were permitted.
Marcia: You can use any auxiliary members to help in bingo because the license is for the club that would extend to your auxiliary as well.
Michelle: As long as they’re members.
Mr. Lucero. Or their wives?
Chair Carla Lopez: My understanding this is language that has been there from existence.
Marcia: that’s part of the statutory language.
Mr. Lucero. We were under the wrong impression then.
Chair Carla Lopez: Thank you.
Nancy Sanchez – Rancho De Ninos Five Points
My question is there are four establishments here in Albuquerque that have bingo, the way we understand as of July 1st all these laws and stuff should have been abided by and there’s just certain people abiding by them and what happens if they don’t abide by July 1st.
Chair Carla Lopez: You’re talking about these policies and rules?
Ms. Sanchez: All these rules.
Chair Carla Lopez: That’s a good question. Let me say first of all some of these have been laws and regulations that have been in existence from the time that the Bingo and Raffle Act was created and from the time that regulation and licensing had authority over it.
Ms. Sanchez: I’m talking about just the new changes.
Chair Carla Lopez: Do you have something specific?
Ms. Sanchez: The whole document.
Chair Carla Lopez: Because the whole document, that’s my point is laws that have been in place for a very long time even before this agency took over bingo and raffle.
Catherine: if you look at a number of those things, right behind each paragraph it will tell you when it’s supposed to go into effect. Actually quite a few of them go into effect January 1, 2007, not July 1st and some of those items that are listed for January 1, 2007 are still being evaluated so they may or may not go into effect. We‘re asking at this point that we get feed-back on that. The application part of it goes in August 1st and that’s when the new permittees have to obtain a license.
Chair Carla Lopez: Is there any in particular that you’re concerned about?
Ms. Sanchez: Just certain ones that we’re still abiding by the $1,500 for each session which is we have two sessions.
Commissioner Dutton: That’s by statute
Ms. Sanchez: We support an orphanage, ok and if we don’t abide by the rules and if somebody comes in and fines us stuff say a $1000, $2,000 dollars whatever it is that’s money taken away from the orphanage. Like the gentleman just said why change something if it’s not broken, why fix it, you know.
Chair Carla Lopez: The $1,500 limit is statute that has existed from day one.
Ms. Sanchez: Ok, so we have to make some changes because there was some stuff in order for us to be able to sell other stuff. There’s customers coming and there’s other establishments aren’t doing this you know you guys are just ripping us off and stuff like that you know.
Commissioner Dutton: Madam unless you can say something specific, it’s real hard for us to respond to just generalities, when you talk about the $1,500, we tell you that’s in the statute, so then you change to something else. If you have something very specific we’d be happy to address it and that’s what we’re here for so we can look at specifics to see if we do need to change.
Ms. Sanchez: Ok, well let’s talk about speed bingo.
Catherine: What are you calling speed bingo?
Ms. Sanchez: It’s a card overall bingo that they play real fast.
Frank Baca: We’re starting to learn some of the new games that are involved and the speed bingo is something fairly new to us, maybe we can get somebody to follow-up and give you a call and we can learn a little bit more about that particular game to see how that would fit.
Chair Carla Lopez: Again the $1,500 is not something that changed, that has been in existence. We’re enforcing it, so I just want people to understand that, we haven’t changed that policy that has always been what it is. As Commissioner Dutton stated the resources may not have been there before and now with this agency we are looking at some of those things. We’re not enforcing something that wasn’t already there.
Commissioner Monroe: What you’re saying is you feel like you are complying but you know other clubs that aren’t and are we going to do something about it.
Commissioner Dutton: We’re going to give everybody a level playing field, so that there’ll be the same enforcement on your club as on his club or her club or whatever.
Ms. Sanchez: Ok, that’s my main question. Is it a period of time or we going to wait until after January 1st when you guys start checking.
Angela Lucero: If we don’t know that somebody’s not complying with regulations, we can’s make that happen so if you know of something, you can call the enforcement division, file a report, you can be anonymous.
Ms. Sanchez: I have called and nothings happened.
Chair Carla Lopez: Have you called regulation and licensing or this agency?
Ms. Sanchez: This agency.
Chair Carla Lopez: When did you do that, do you recall who you spoke with.
Madeline: You talked to me.
Chair Carla Lopez: We’ll follow up on that.
Ms. Sanchez: Thank you.
Helen Salazar – Friends of Rancho de Ninos – 5 Points:
I don’t need to talk I have the same question.
Celestia Keeling - Post 614 VFW
We have a bingo machine that keeps track of all of the game numbers and the games and everything and we just want to know if we have to keep the papers even though we have a machine that tracks all that and we keep that paper.
Chair Carla Lopez: So its already keeping track of everything for you?
Marcia: The daily gaming paperwork that you use for your session to help you prepare for your monthly taxes that you use to compile your quarterly report form are the documents that we referred to as bingo documents that you have a retention for three years, those other documents you do not. You’re using those figures for that evening’s game? You do not need to maintain every little document. It’s the primary documents you use to prepare the final.
Ms. Keeling: Do they have to be there six months before the bingo or just to call bingo?
Chair Carla Lopez: Is that a requirement, Frank?
Frank Baca: They just need to be a member.
Ms. Keeling: even a caller? Or do they have to be there six months before they can call?
Frank Baca: I’m not aware of any six month requirement. Whatever the rules of your organization are for membership.
Chair Carla Lopez: Where are you referring to the six months?
Ms. Keeling: For a caller.
Chair Carla Lopez: Is that part of your house rules? I’m not familiar with it.
Marcia: The statute only refers to members.
Commissioner Dutton: Again, that’s not our rule that’s in the statute and that’s the legislature to change that.
Ms. Keeling: As far as you’re concerned you don’t adhere to that?
Commissioner Dutton: We do.
Chair Carla Lopez: That’s what we’re saying.
Ms. Keeling: Ok
Commissioner Dutton: We’re saying we do, these rules will not change the statute will prevail.
Ms. Keeling: Thank you.
Ms. Keeling: How old do you have to be?
Frank Baca: There is no reference in the statute to age and that’s a policy that we have not yet addressed but we found that it’s across the board there are some places that set a limit and some places do not but it is not addressed in the statute and it’s not addressed in our policy at this point.
Chair Carla Lopez: I think what we have said is anything that we haven’t address in here is status quo so that’s how we’re handling that.
Ms. Keeling: If we have a problem to the VFW 614 can I take my pass and go to the VFW 2182 and work their bingo to or do I have to stay in our game room.
Chair Carla Lopez: As long as you’re a member, however many organizations you’re a member of that is how many organizations that you can go to.
Ms. Keeling: So, I can go to the other Post and work if I want to.
Commissioner Dutton: We do ask though that there be notice to the Board of the several organizations that you’re going to work with.
Chair Carla Lopez: You’ll have one permit and if you’ll let our licensing group know so that we can associate you with those two organizations, that’s fine.
Frank Baca: We’ve been having our staff look through the statute for that six month qualification, I’ve read the Bingo Act about ten times and everyone else here has read it a number of times, we can’t find any place in there where it says that you have to be there six months to be a caller, if somebody finds it in our policy and statute please bring it to our attention because we have never seen that so as far as we know there is no requirement they just need to be a member.
Ms. Keeling: Then on our quarterly report do we have some way to have somebody teach us how to do that?
Marcia: You can always call the Audit Division but what in particular because the quarterly report form isn’t that different from what RLD required you to fill out so what part of that form is the part that’s confusing you?
Chair Carla Lopez: Can you guys have a discussion after the meeting. I’d rather address it that way. Thank you.
Frank Chiprich – DAV Deming Chapter #2
My question is no cash on hand will be transferred to the second occasion, I understand that that has been changed and you can receive that money. Many times our cash is not actual money, we have more checks then we do cash, now if I transferred those checks and put them as cash on hand in the second occasion how do I balance out the first occasion.
Chair Carla Lopez: That is a question for our auditors.
Marcia: That’s why we want the cash on hand to be separate so that you can close out an occasion and have a true accounting. One of the other organizations has an issue because to make it balance or take cash from one occasion to another they’re writing checks to cash and the statute clearly says you cannot write checks to cash in bingo so our purpose was to close out each occasion.
Chair Carla Lopez: But can’t we just deduct on the report that cash on hand.
Marcia: Each occasion stands alone for its expenses, for its receipts, for its deposits, so its for the accounting of each one and so they can deduct the net proceeds that are excess in expenses that we’re allowing them to deduct per occasion.
Chair Carla Lopez: But it seems if that’s seed money, its seed money regardless, so as long as you account for it on the report.
Marcia: How many people are closing out totally with a deposit slip at the end of an occasion and how many are not because I think the majority are, the minority are not and that is were the discrepancy lies.
Chair Carla Lopez: I think we need to work on that but to answer this gentleman’s question.
Marcia: you’re not going to be able to balance that way is the answer to that question.
Mr. Chiprich: In other words I would have to have two different instead of $1,600 withdrawal for the first occasion I’d have to go ahead and get another $1,600 and put it into second occasion.
Marcia: What I would tell you at this point until we look at, because you’re not balancing is that my assumption is that you have the appropriate cash on hand to start each of your occasions and that’s the money you use keeping in mind that you’re limited to the $1,500 prize payout for each occasion.
Mr. Chiprich: Let me ask you this question, we pull checks out from the first deposit that we have made, at the end of the second occasion, we would not put $1,600 as cash for the second occasion, you’ve already used that on the first occasion, take those checks and put them back into the first occasion and then only go with the money you made in the second occasion.
Marcia: I’m going to say that’s what you’re doing now to accommodate that and my suggestion is that you have cash on hand in the beginning to cover that activity and enough for the second if you choose to have two occasions in one session because we need an accounting from the beginning to the end, your activity, your receipts for each occasion. I know what you’re telling me you’re doing because other clubs are doing that too but the majority of the clubs are not doing that they are keeping enough cash on hand just as you were doing one occasion one night and one another night you’re starting up that evening you’re not taking money from one date and advancing it to the next date, you’re closing out at the end of that occasion and so if you’re doing two in one day the procedure should be the same from the beginning to the end for the audit trail, for the accounting purposes and for you to actually close out and have a true accounting of that activity for that occasion and reporting it.
Mr. Chiprich: My conclusion comes to this, I can put $1,600 on my first report and deposits then and I know I’m going to close that down so we have that money on hand for the second occasion but actually the money belongs to the first occasion so whenever I make the deposit slip for the second occasion I don’t use $1,600 at all just the money that I come in the second occasion.
Marcia: I would have to say that until a policy is really approved as to how to close out is going to be done and the definition of how you close out an occasion will be decided on, you’ll probably have to do it that way it that’s the only way you can do it now.
: Are you requiring two deposits if you have two occasions in one day?
Marcia: We’re suggesting that you have two deposit slips, one to show each occasion that your conducting your bingo activity.
Mr. Chiprich: After the first occasion was completed the tables were all cleared and everything and we were able to go out and have the sellers go out and sell a pack, I understand now the people have to come up to the cashier, is that correct?
Catherine: That’s part of the rules where it has to be a designated area as far as the master packs.
Commissioner Dutton: Mr. Chiprich this came up at the meeting in Ruidoso last month and it is something that we were going to look at. They were talking about handicap folks or people in wheelchairs and things of that nature that it would be very difficult for them to have to have to get up out of their chair and go, and so it was something that we were going to look at.
Catherine: Currently, it’s an existing rule that it has to be a designated area where the master packs are sold from, now you can have a large array of an area, if you wanted to make two or three windows and its all designated its up to you but you have to have where it’s not being sold on the floor.
Marcia: I believe a couple of meetings prior to an issue came up and having some players that were handicap and I think at the time the Board said on a case by case basis that if they find a need that they have to accommodate their patrons we would allow that, if they gave us notice they were doing that it would be sufficient for you to do whatever it took to handle your game playing appropriately to accommodate your patrons.
Mr. Chiprich: That would be beneficial to us and we can continue to practice for the simply reason going to break we did away with smoking in our bingo, we have nonsmoking bingo, you’re taking away their time by having to come up to the cashier and buy it and if people go out on the floor and sell it to them.
Commissioner Dutton: You understand that’s the rule currently. Once again the mere fact that that rule hadn’t been enforced in the past doesn’t mean that the rule didn’t exist, so that’s the rule now and that’s one of the things that we will be looking at but it is the current rule and we’re simply saying that to provide an exception for the handicap is what we would do, we would not necessarily cite you because you brought a packet to someone that was in a wheelchair or otherwise.
Mr. Chiprich: So in other words you’re telling me we can continue doing this until you come to a conclusion.
Commissioner Dutton: No Sir.
Chair Carla Lopez: Under regulation and licensing this rule was set even before this Board took over regulation. It was the previous agency, so this has been a long standing regulation, this is not something that we’ve just created. What Marcia is referring to is in the cases of those individuals with disabilities then we can look at providing an exception but this is something that has been in existence, this Board is only enforcing that previously set rule.
Mr. Chiprich: At the last meeting here I brought up disability, we have no sanctions at all for disability at bingos, we cannot set a table apart, make a reservation with a table for disabled, in the bylaws it says you cannot reserve a table, no action has been taken on it, now you’re telling me the action is here for something else.
Chair Carla Lopez: These were existing rules; they are not anything that we have changed.
Mr. Chiprich: You’re adding in for disability person you can go ahead and have them purchase.
Marcia: The rule says that you cannot reserve a set for bingo and that is just if the normal person was buying a ticket and saving a chair, but in your case and since the statute was done in 81’ I think the ADA has come into play you can have a designated handicapped area. There is nothing to keep you from doing that.
Catherine: It’s just you cannot reserve a seat for an individual, if you designate an area for disability that’s different than individual.
Mr. Chiprich: I would like to see that in writing, that’s a question that I have to answer whenever.
Frank Baca: We’ll do that; we’ll put that in the policy.
Frank Baca: I’d like to apologize to the lady before because she was absolutely correct about the six month rule, it was something that I had personally missed and so I appreciate you bringing that to our attention others as well. It is in the statute, it is also apparently in the rules but it is a statutory provision 60-2B-8T and it does require a person in good standing at least 6 months immediately prior to the date of the game. Appreciate you’re bringing that up that was a good point and that’s not changing that is still a requirement. It was also pointed out by Commissioner Dutton this is that same statutory provision is the basis for our requiring and the legislature requiring the background checks specifically of callers because it says also they have to be of good moral character and have never been convicted of a felony that’s a specific statutory language having to do with the callers.
Dave Johnson – Deming Elks #2799
I’m still a bit confused on the close out requirements, I’m reading here effective immediately and I’m hearing well if you want to do it this way that’s fine, if you want to do this way, that’s fine we’re not going to do anything. Should we start following this immediately and having separate money to start up both occasions of our bingo that’s what it says we’re going to do, it says it’s effective immediately. At the last meeting I brought this up and I was basically told its fine if you take the profits you made from your first occasion, make a separate deposit which we have been doing for the last two weeks and use that same start up money for the second occasion, now I’m hearing some conflicting information here, that’s not what you can do and along that same lines I was also told at the last meeting the pull tabs were included in this close out requirement from the first occasion to the second occasion that they also must be closed out per occasion. We have people that buy their pull tabs in the first occasion and not redeem them until the second occasion, is this a problem? You tell them they have to redeem them that night and that guy that runs our pull tabs would like to see that run all night long through both occasions and then be closed out separately they run a separate bank but pull tabs also have to be closed out between the first and the second occasion.
Marcia: The policy that was recommended by audit in conducting the quarterly report form to the Board is a policy recommendation to meet the reporting requirement according to statute for all receipts of all games of chance are reported per occasion that is a requirement. The games of chance you’re conducting would be bingo and pull tabs therefore you need to disclose the entire amount of receipts you are accumulating for each occasion. Our recommendation to the Board is to determine how to close out an occasion so that the accounting is properly done and documented so that you can prepare monthly tax bill and the quarterly report form therefore the suggestion was made that you should have cash on hand to start and each occasion should stand on it’s own and close out on its own that’s the recommendation we are making. The Board will have to decide on that, my recommendation is that you do and that’s an easier way for you to handle your receipts and reporting. It’s complicated for those who want to do game play immediately afterward because you have to take a break to do this and the people who are doing more than one occasion are the people who are having problem with it, however, there are clubs that are doing two occasions that are doing the deposit at the end of each occasion. Those who are doing only one occasion a night are completing one entire occasion.
Mr. Johnson: You understand that pull tabs would not be totally accurate unless you’re going to make an announcement, you have a pull tab you must redeem it or you’re going to lose out before we start our second occasion.
Marcia: And that could be a house rule, that might occur but the decision has to be made by the Board first and to determine how to close out an occasion. If you have a suggestion that is contrary to that please make it and we will take that into consideration.
Mr. Johnson: The only suggestion I would make is since pull tabs is really run, yes it is a game of chance but it’s run with its own bank and is separate I would like to see.
Marcia: But all the receipts are deposited in one account.
Mr. Johnson: They’re deposited in the bingo account but on the report they are shown separately, they showing they had a separate bank, that they had this much money that was now pull tab it’s not just dumped into bingo.
Commissioner Dutton: Mr. Johnson what was your suggestion?
Mr. Johnson: My suggestion would be that pull tabs allowed to run all night long and not have to be closed out after the first occasion.
Commissioner Dutton: What would be wrong with that?
Marcia: Nothing would be wrong with that but then when they’re deducting their expenses and you’re limited to a certain dollar amount per occasion, how are you going to deduct bingo vs. pull tabs when you have one occasion for pull tab and two for bingo.
Mr. Johnson: We still on paper separate what we made in the first occasion and the second occasion, what we don’t like is going in there and having to tell people if we do this accurately we’re going to tell people you’ve got to redeem your cards before the nights out.
Commission Dutton: Her answer implied it was an issue with regard to allocating expenses. Could you address that issue? The allocation of expenses for bingo vs. the pull tabs on that one night.
Mr. Johnson: On paper it is already split up I guess all we’re asking is if you let the pull tabs do their own thing and run all night long. We still show that he made so much in the first occasion and so much in the second occasion. Rather than put the requirement at the close out and we have to tell our patrons Ok if you have a pull tab it’s not going to be any good if you wait until after this break and then go up and try to redeem it, it’s not going to be good anymore cause you must redeem it on the same night which was our rule before.
Marcia: That was your house rule?
Mr. Johnson: Yes. We’re going to close up the first occasion and start a second occasion and you’re going to have people redeeming pull tabs from the first occasion in the second occasion so it’s not going to be separated out anyway.
Marcia: You could have a house rule that says you will redeem all the games of chance in the first occasion within that occasion.
Mr. Johnson: We could if we wanted to but I don’t see a real need.
Chair Carla Lopez: These are obviously policies that the Board, this is the reason that we’re having these open sessions to hear people’s input so if there are areas that need to be changed we can change them.
Commissioner Dutton: and you make a good point and we can take a look at it and your next question is going to be, fine Mr. Dutton what do we do now.
Mr. Johnson: exactly
Marcia: You can continue to do what you’re doing now until the Board determines that because as you referenced our recommendation is effective immediately. If people cannot accommodate that and the Board has to make a decision we are looking at your forms, if you documented everything and there’s not a problem that violates the statute its fine we will accept it until the policy has been approved.
Mr. Johnson: I have just one other quick question, this is also brought up by a couple of our members. On the picture requirements for the permittees, it’s been suggested that you’re a state agency, the department of motor vehicles is a state agency, they have digital photos of everybody that has a drivers license, I have a guy that works in the lodge and he has a gun carry permit, exactly the same picture he has on his drivers license is on his guy carry permit, isn’t there some way that you could coordinate with DMV and use those pictures for those plastic name badges?
Commissioner Dutton: We can look into that.
Chair Carla Lopez: Thank you.
Judi Moreno, American Legion Post 99 – no response
Edward Salazar - American Legion Post 36
I have a question on number 7; on page 6 no. 7 an active caller cannot verify the winning numbers. Could you explain that? I call numbers and the worker gets the card and is calling out to verify the numbers that are on the cards well the caller has to verify that those numbers are on the board on the machine, right? According to this it says you cannot verify it.
Chair Carla Lopez: I think we need to clarify this. If someone else is calling the number and you’re just verifying what the other person is calling, then that should be fine.
Commissioner Dutton: Mr. Salazar we covered this when we were at Ruidoso and what we basically said was that there need’s to be two people involved. We’re going to wordsmith it to get that accomplished.
Chair Carla Lopez: The way you’re doing it is fine. Thank you.
Liz Lucero – Red Rose of New Mexico
I just want verification on the permit. If I were to go and get a permit as a caller, manager whatever if I move with another organization can that same permit be used or do you have to have a permit for each organization?
Chair Carla Lopez: No, you just need one permit.
Mariscela: On the application there are three separate areas where you can specify where you’re working what different places. The only thing we ask is that you can’t be a manager at two places.
Ms. Lucero: That $1500 is it, just for clarification for myself, I know you cannot exceed $1,500 is that guarantee pay of $1,500.
Chair Carla Lopez: No, you don’t have to guarantee that that night you’re going to pay out $1,500. You just can’t pay out more than $1,500.
Ms. Lucero: We just cannot exceed, you can play four games and pay out $700 instead of $1,500, that’s ok, that’s just an example.
C.J. Schilling – passed.
Chair Carla Lopez: I don’t have anybody else signed up.
Luis Chavez – Knights of Columbus 993
You say about expenses on the pull tabs, we’re not allowed any expenses on the pull tabs except for the purchases.
Marcia: You are allowed expenses per occasion and in an occasion you are doing whatever games of chance you’re doing, whether it’s a raffle, bingo or pull tab.
Mr. Chavez: The previous Board is the one that came up with that and said we can’t prorate everything goes to the bingo nothing is applied to the pull tab except for the purchase of the pull tab.
Marcia: I don’t know what other Board, I know that people are deducting utility portion accounting fees for doing the report and they are dividing them between pull tab and bingo activity, they’re basing it on both.
Mr. Chavez: The previous Board didn’t allow that.
Chair Carla Lopez: Sir, what previous Board are you talking about?
Mr. Chavez: Regulation
Chair Carla Lopez: The superintendent didn’t allow it?
Mr. Chavez: That the rule that they didn’t allow
Marcia: I’ve never seen that rule written and I have not seen it in the statute. I know that some people have told me the same thing but I’ve never seen the documentation stating that. Do you have a written copy? It’s not a rule, we’re trying to establish a policy the one you’re talking about I have not found anything that says it’s a rule.
Chair Carla Lopez: If it’s not a rule, it’s not our policy.
Chair Carla Lopez: Thank you everyone for coming and attending, appreciate all of your input. We’re not done with our Board meeting just this part of it.
Chair Carla Lopez entertained a motion to go into closed executive session for the purpose of discussing personnel matters. C. Monroe. Second: D. Dutton. Vote: 3-0. A roll call vote was taken and all voted to go into closed executive session: D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe.
Chair Carla Lopez entertained a motion to go back into open session. D. Norvell. Second: D. Dutton. Vote: 4-0 A roll call vote was taken and all voted to go into closed executive session: D. Dutton, C. Lopez and C. Monroe. Chair Carla Lopez certified that the only matter discussed in closed executive session were limited personnel matters.
8 Public Comments.
- There were no public comments.
9 Adjournment. There being no other business to come before the Board, Chair Carla Lopez entertained a motion to adjourn. Second: C. Monroe.
/s/ Carla C. Lopez, Esq., CPA Date Approved: 09/19/06
Chair